1. Alexander

   Apr 18th, 2008 at 6:47 pm

   No, this does not sum it up. This video does not talk about what the people of Tibet want themselves, and if *they* want independence, why shall they not have it? I am Norwegian, and Norway was under Denmark rule for 250 years, and then Swedish rule for another 100 (roughly speaking), until we decided that we wanted to be separate. Why shouldn’t we, the people of Norway, not be allowed to be separated?

   This is about land and property and stubborn irrational human pride and ownership, and nothing more. Just because something has belonged to something for a very long time does not give any right to keep it so for the unforeseen future. The world is an ever changing place, and the change comes from people and their feelings for the place they’re in. Some times things will stay the same, other times things change. A lot of people around the world would like to see some change in Tibet as expressed by a lot of people closer to the reality of Tibet than by those who do not live there, including the Chinese government.

   Another thing not talked about in this video is the way the Communist Party operates the country that is China, and how laws in China makes it illegal not to be patriotic to its ideals. In fact, for any Chinese it is against the law to claim that Tibet perhaps has merit as its own country, and we need to be aware of *that*, especially when the Chinese themselves, Tibetan or not, express their opinion on the matter.

   Perhaps there is merit in Tibet being part of China, and perhaps there is not, but the only way to find that out for sure is for outside parties to scrutinize the issue as this change can’t come from within China, but from within Tibet. We’re seeing evidence of the root wanting to free out. let’s find out for sure instead of falling into the trap of accepting matters from public sources. Especially when public sources are bound by law not to sway from the ideals of the situation they’re *currently* in.

2. rex chung

   Apr 21st, 2008 at 12:59 am

   Ok Alexander, I can agree that this video does not sum up the situation entirely, but it is showing some truth that the western media is definitely not showing.

   Independence is not as simple as saying “and if *they* want independence, why shall they not have it?”. Can California separate from the US just because they want to? Did Iraqis ask US to raid their country and hang their ruler of the country? Are they independent from the US now?

   Whatever the answer is, it doesn’t matter. The western media is just manipulating the general public to cause a negative image for the China Olympic games. They are not helping the Tibetans to be independent from China. If they were, they would have talked about things you’ve just said and not using videos from Nepalese police bashing up monks.

3. Alexander

   Apr 21st, 2008 at 5:41 pm

   Well, I can agree with you that perhaps western media sucks, but there’s great variation within that as with other things. What we mostly refer to - and especially in this context - is western tabloid media, which indeed gets most things wrong or spin an angle on it which is contrary to the case.

   As to independence, it sometimes is as simple as saying “we want to be separated”, but there’s both internal and external political forces that determine how successful that break might be. We have examples of both, and sometimes it works and other times it does not. There is no single answer here.

   The reason people focus negatively on China is because the Chinese way doesn’t include basic human rights (freedom of expression as one on the major ones) or adhere to democratic values which, as global philosophy goes, is progress. If you think the communist regime of China is the pillar of success and progress, then of course you won’t agree with those who think in democratic terms, and vice versa. This will always happen until one or the other changes, and what are the chances that will ever happen? The west will always fight for democracy, and China will always fight for communism. Which one is better for the Chinese people? Which one is best for the Tibetan people?

   In many ways, “what is best for the people?” seems to be the question most people ignore when these big issues are discussed, and with “the people” I mean the people who live in the context of the issues at hand, so let’s put the question in context; if public opinion was allowed to be expressed fully in Tibet, would the Tibetans still want China rule?

   There is nothing more important than that, and the reason the West really is ticked off with this whole thing is that that question isn’t allowed to be asked.

4. rex chung

   Apr 21st, 2008 at 10:57 pm

   Is CNN considered “western tabloid media” ? I hope they’d like to think they’re not.

   “what is best for the people?” , let them decide. I don’t think democracy in the US is all about letting people choose their destiny. They end up voting for a clown president like Bush and I don’t think they had a vote for attacking Iraq. They had the freedom of speech, but so what if the government decides to do it anyway?

   Did you see that video? What was the life like in Tibet while the Dalai was in power? Did they have a freedom of speech?

   The form of their so called ‘peaceful protest’ is totally unacceptable. It was basically a riot, looting, killing, and destroying everything. Is that what should be allowed in a democratic country? I don’t think so. If that is not allowed in a democratic country, it shouldn’t be allowed in a communist country either. It is not about communism or democracy. The West is using this chance to cause a stir, they’re not talking about human rights. They are showing the wrong images of people getting bashed. Was there ever a topic about the history of Tibet? I haven’t seen any apart from the internet. You’re already being manipulated if you are one of those shouting “free Tibet”.

5. Alexander

   Apr 23rd, 2008 at 6:30 pm

   Not to put pepper in your yogurt, but arguing free speech and democracy seen through dictatorial Chinese rule is pathetic. The ‘peaceful protest’ was quite peaceful until it was intervened, and when that happened it opened up the rage that you find in oppressed people. This is not unique to this situation; you see this everywhere in the world where people are oppressed. This is what oppression does, just like bottling your anger until one day you pop. This is a human thing, and has got nothing to do with what system of society we live in. In fact, it is fully acceptable to be human.

   CNN is tabloid, of course it is. But why this US focus on your diatribe? CNN is US, not “western”, whatever that expression means these days. I am myself very distant from that angle. This is a global issue, nothing less.

   There are some basic rights we (and by we, I’m referring to most people who enjoy these rights on a daily basis, perhaps taking them for granted) agree that people should have, and that’s freedom of speech, thought, and the ability to choose your own destiny. These are not purely western ideals, mind you, rooted even in Tibetan Buddhism and Hinduism for a very very long time. Chinese rule does not mean Chinese culture, and there’s thoughts and opinions in China and Tibet today that’s extremely counter to the Chinese public opinion.

   Like someone else told you, the irony is that if we were in China or Tibet right now discussing this, I could face prison for stating that I feel oppressed. That’s a violation of the three basic human rights we’ve got, and you’re arguing against them. Fear of retaliations, perhaps?

6. rex chung

   Apr 23rd, 2008 at 9:50 pm

   I don’t think the Chinese government is stupid enough to put people away just because they expressed that they’re feeling oppressed. Certainly there’s some people that are put in jail for voicing themselves. Those are a few extreme cases. And you think it is fully acceptable to be human, well in any other country, killing people, destroying public property in a riot would be considered criminal offense.

   I’m not arguing against human rights, but what is the realistic situation with human rights? Is China ready for this ? Is the majority of people in China asking for it? Is this what China needs right now?

   If the voices are great enough, I’m sure Chinese rule will be over thrown. Let it happen naturally.

7. Alexander

   Apr 23rd, 2008 at 10:46 pm

   I think your “extreme cases” are rather common, I’m afraid. The Chinese government strike hard at stuff that ain’t part of the communistic ideals that, by circumstance, is defined by the communist party.

   “Is China ready for democracy and human rights? Does China need it?” Umm, these are human traits, it’s fairness, it’s embracing humanity. Of course they both need and want it, but there’s a system on top who refuse that to happen.

   Besides, you’re missing the point that you can’t ask these questions to the Chinese, as it is against the law to answer. How’s that for progress?

   Besides, what does it mean to let it happen naturally? We humans meddle in our society structures all the time, through questioning them and fighting for opposites. There’s nothing natural about leaving the issue alone.

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